Gauging from the emails, the first Sovereign Grace Leadership Interview podcast—“The Pastor and His Reading”—was a hit. The second episode is set for release this Tuesday, March 18. In anticipation of the podcast, this week we pull a few excerpts from the upcoming episode, “The Pastor and His Soul.”

In today’s excerpt, Joshua and C.J. address how a pastor monitors the health of his own soul.

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Joshua Harris: Pastors are obviously called to care for the souls of others, and yet today we want to turn the focus and ask: How does a pastor make sure that he is caring for his own soul? What does it look like for a man to pursue his own personal relationship with God and make sure he is growing spiritually?

C.J., this is a subject you take so much time to talk about with pastors and those in the Pastors College. Why is this important to you?

C.J. Mahaney: Well, Josh, I think it would be difficult, if not impossible, to exaggerate the importance of this topic for the pastor. So I am very eager for us to talk about this and hope that we can serve all pastors. It’s all too easy and all too common for a pastor, in caring for others, to neglect his own soul.

Today we want to address that, and hopefully provide some helpful recommendations so that a pastor avoids the neglect of his own soul as he executes his responsibility to care for a growing church.

JH: I can imagine a guy listening and thinking, “OK. They’re going to talk about studying the Bible and praying. I am doing those things.” If you were to try to get that guy’s attention and talk about what are some of the signs that (even if those things are in place) maybe his soul is not being cared for, is not flourishing as it should, what are some warning signs that something is out of place?

CJM: Yes, excellent question. If I had the privilege to sit across from someone in pastoral ministry, one of the questions I would ask him is: How goes it with your soul? And I would do my best to draw him out, particularly about the presence or absence of affections for the Savior. So I wouldn’t want to begin with discussing the particulars of pastoral ministry or the skills involved for the effective execution of pastoral ministry. What I would want to talk to each and every pastor [about] first and foremost is: How is it with your soul?

And I would ask if they are weary of soul. There is a difference between being tired and weary. If I am tired, then sleep will bring appropriate refreshment and restore my strength. But if I am weary, sleep will be insufficient.

It is all too easy to slowly and subtly grow weary as a pastor, and we must guard against that which is, I think, one of the reasons a verse like Proverbs 4:23 is so relevant to all of us, but pastors in particular. “Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life” (ESV).

So we must pay close attention to our hearts. We must study our hearts. We must monitor the condition of our hearts, and ultimately we must work by the grace of God and employ the means of grace to “keep our hearts with all vigilance.”

So if I was interacting with a pastor, I would want to draw him out about the present state of his soul, the presence or absence of affections and passion for the Savior. And I would want to talk to him about whether ministry is a joy for him at present, or a burden. Is his soul glad, or is his soul weighed down and weary?

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The full hourlong podcast, “The Pastor and His Soul,” will be available through this blog and iTunes next Tuesday (18th).